Again, is this not another case of'fantasmatic inflation', of imagining this figure to be Ziegler simplybecause of what we subsequently learn about him in the poolroom scene?And why should it matter WHO this figure is, beyond being a member ofthe power elite? -- Steven L.Email: sdli@earthlinkNOSPAM.netRemove the NOSPAM before replying to me. "you are going to need some rehab," she says, >> "I know.">. In fact, the only actual dream in the film is unseen, is onlylater described - namely, Alice's dream/nightmare about having sexwith numerous men (strikingly similar to the fate of the women atSomerton) in which Bill is openly humiliated, and told to Bill justafer he returns from Somerton. He only ultimately acceptsZiegler's account because itgives him a convenient alibi (as well as because of Ziegler's powerfulposition - Bill is Ziegler's man, obeying his orders, subscribing tothe demands and realities of Ziegler's world). When Bill asks what, she simply responds, "Fuck." Eyes Wide Shut developed after Stanley Kubrick read Arthur Schnitzler's Dream Story in 1968, when Kubrick was looking for a project to follow 2001: A Space Odyssey. Kubrick was interested in adapting the story, and with the help of journalist Jay Cocks, bought the filming rights to the novel. I recognized the voice of the mysterious woman first time I saw the film. Ironically, that is just what power (and Ziegler)would want you to believe - that the world of power and power elitesdoesn't exist, is just all a charade anyway, that those who dorecognise the realities of social power and of desire are justparanoid conspiracy nutters (when in fact it is those whoattribute all that occurs in the film to 'a dream' who are beingproperly paranoid). People and Masks: The Meaning of Eyes Wide Shut The genre of Stanley Kubricks last film, based on the well-known story of the Austrian A. Schnitzler, The Crumb Eye. WebEyes Wide Shut Mask Woman - Etsy Browse a wide selection of eyes wide shut mask woman and face coverings available in various fabrics and configurations, made by a > Mandy was not the same woman. Harry, you are calling him a troll for criticizing your manic, vain and pretentious word salad? > He didn't recognise her voice. It is only when Ziegler responds> positively to Bill's question, "The woman at the party is the woman in> the morgue?" but comparing the shot with all the the bathroom shots, eventually it is clear that it is Mandy. I had absolutely no idea you were involved in any way. Nevertheless, those two recollections(one of a fantasy, one of a dream) constitute the very desire whoseexclusion (from the quotidian, commonsensical, 'social reality' of theHarfords' marriage) the film is exploring. orpsychotherapists. In the spur of the moment people might first recognize voices, subliminally. Same voice. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Again, is this not another case of'fantasmatic inflation', of imagining this figure to be Ziegler simplybecause of what we subsequently learn about him in the poolroom scene?And why should it matter WHO this figure is, beyond being a member ofthe power elite? He wasn't positive. > No, they aren't half whispered, they might be a little quiet but they aare > clear and she has a very distinctive voice. NG was :>the realization of that potential. <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<, > The poolroom scene is an amazing piece of extreme understatement, while at. Masks - both literal and figurative - are a major motif, and one of the most important sequences is when Bill infiltrates a masked sex party at a remote mansion, which is being held by members of high society. I like the Ninth Gate alot and have watched it numerous times but it's quite a few notches below EWS. What else could he call it? Bill has not made any definitive connection at that stage between> Mandy and the masked woman, only - at most - between Mandy and the> Amanda from the news report, both of them having suffered drug> overdoses. <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<. >Apparently word of Bill's> entry into the ceremony/orgy traveled fast. EWS was potential. Poor Clark. The second half of Eyes Wide Shut sees Bill being given ominous warnings from this secret society, and he can't seem to find his mask from the party. Related: Every Stanley Kubrick Movie Ranked, Worst To Best. While Polanski is the master ofparanoia, The Ninth Gate had too many things wrong with it. "My Sex Slave video with Chinese subtitles"http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NjMIROKzH7s, ZKD 788-http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B4N4vSijHTM, Im Treibhaus (Wesendonck Lieder) - Richard Wagner - Faynehttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QOhxWdGuQd4, When he claps his hands together. For instance,it's fairly obvious from the start who the Mysterious Woman is. The twenty-something woman confirmed she and her partner Leonard are polyamorous. That would not be valuable or insightful speculation, but a totaldenial of most of what happens in the film (another variation of 'it'sall just a dream', everything being attributable to the delusions ofBill's mind, a denial of the world of social power, similar to sayingthat everything that happens to Jack Torrance in The Shining is all'in his mind'). > Well thats all true, but of course that was SK making a masterpiece and > one of the most amazing films ever made IMO. However, as we might imagine, there were many who believed his death was far from natural. Even Ziegler only uses that wordin reference to his own earlier party, while referring to the Somertonrituals always more elusively: "I was there, at the House", "what ifwhat happened was a fake, a charade", etc, but no mention of any'party' at Somerton. andpleading with her to take off her mask? This is still a mystery. <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<, > This is still a mystery. <<<<<<<<<<<<<>. Again, how is it 'clearly' the same voice? and she replies, "Better," and then when Bill says, "you are a very lucky girl," Mandy says, "I know." Wasn't the woman in the mask a lot skinnier than the ODd woman?? WebIn Kubrick's Eyes Wide Shut, the protagonist Bill arrives at a secret party/orgy: Shortly after arriving, he is warned by a masked woman to leave ASAP. All of this could have been set up by Alice, who asks, Bill in the beginning, "why do you think Zeigler invites us to these? > Even Sk was not perfect in that way-----or was hethere is another > mystery. or psychotherapists. But then, Ziegler's 'explanation', his retconningof past events, only serves to further propel Bill into subjectivedestitution, another 'replay' of Bill's unmasking at Somerton, Zieglerpower-presiding over Bill's position and status at a red pool-tablemuch like Red Cloak presided over the power ritual on a red carpet atSomerton. And wouldn't he really feel more at home in amore errrrrrrrr Gnostic setting? I think the voice would have rung a bell and > the Newspaper story rang a bell, with the name Amanda, and of course > seeing the corpse of someone who may have sacrificed her life for him--so > he was in shock. <<<<<<<<<<<<<<< party nevertheless. It is also possible that for some reason Kubrick had to hire a different person to double for Mandy. and then Bill says, "..you can't keep doing >> this," Mandy says, "Ya." Is that how youwould describe it? Alot was going on, he had to figure it out. Poor pitiful morons that we all are -thank Bog he's put off Nirvana for so long. The Daily Planet may go under too. --Napoleon. I'm your Mutineer~ - Warren Zevon- -. If it is vague, then how can it also be 'clear'? First of all, Mandy must have felt some connection with Bill since he was showing her concern and kindness in the Bathroom. And coming from the newsgroup'sresident acid-headed, solipsistic zombie. What's going on?>> Wasn't the woman in the mask a lot skinnier than the ODd woman?? Lets look at the basic plot of this film. > Similarly, when Bill reads the media report about an Amanda Curran> suffering a drug overdose in a hotel, why does he immediately make a> connection with his own recent experiences (and in a coffee shop/cafe> that set-wise is actually the very same building that earlier served> as Millich's Rainbow Fashions)? Even Sk was not perfect in that way-----or was hethere is the mystery. A powerful man realizes one night that his wife has had not one but myriad Technology has caught up with his disguises andcovers. They're not 'big words', just words you are clearly unfamiliar with,apparently, words you'd therefore gleefully ridicule precisely becauseof your ignorance of them, it seems; but rather than gracefully admitthis, you instead attempt to denigrate the poster for having the gallto use words that challenge your smugonautic and myopic pomposity. From his meeting with Ziegler in the poolroom, it appears that Billhas been unclear about the identity of the woman in the morgue via-a-vis Mandy and the masked woman. I don't think there were any other dreams, although the redpool table scene always seemed the most dreamlike to me. it is clearly the same voice as the "mysterious woman." WebThe protagonists mask (Bill Harford, interpreted by Tom Cruise) is a Venetian mask that covers the entire face. Let him go! 0. Please either stop > or> shape up. The movie went through post-production following Stanley Kubrick's death, though some have argued about how much it represents his intended vision. He only ultimately accepts Ziegler's account because it> gives him a convenient alibi (as well as because of Ziegler's powerful> position - Bill is Ziegler's man, obeying his orders, subscribing to> the demands and realities of Ziegler's world). And Milich was expecting him. > The vagueness is intentional, but I think it is clear that it was Mandy > all along, If it is vague, then how can it also be 'clear'? So maybe they were all wearing walkie talkies under those masks, what do you want me to say..no, this IS left as a huge mystery. '<<<<<<<<<<<> I think it is clear he was referring to the Somerton party. And of course how did > the mask get on his pillow? It's "clear," after studying the film after many viewing. People were dancing, there was music wearing costumes, and although it was strange, calling it a "party," would not be unusual in the slightest. ME> Again. <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<. Whereas atSomerton, Ziegler and the others only first become suspicious of Billas an interloper because of how he arrived there (in a taxi ratherthan a limousine). Which all suggests that Ziegler didn't actually knowabout Bill's presence at Somerton until he removed his mask <<<<<<<<<<<<. There's like a billion posts here at alt.movies.kubrick and you cansearch the archives for this information. Bill is still even denying he knows what Zeigler > is talking about till Zeigler says "I was there at the house. (meaning > the Mysterious woman), ME"So..Victor the woman lying dead at the morgue was the> women at the party, well Victor, maybe i'm missing something > but what kind of Charade ends up with someone dead.". People were dancing, there was music wearing costumes, and although > it was strange, calling it a "party," would not be unusual in the > slightest. that Bill first makes this connection, or at least, has> it confirmed by someone else (Ziegler)", > Ditto. at the ceremony/orgy. 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